Excuse my dumb Oppo....but...

"RallyDarkstrike - Fan of 2-cyl FIATs, Eastern Bloc & Kei cars" (rallydarkstrike) 05/22/2020 at 14:56 • Filed to: Battery Charger

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...I need to pick you brains. Context:

The battery in mom’s car has now gone dead twice from sitting due to her not driving with the Stay-At-Home orders for COVID.

The first time I gave it a jump with my car and we took it for a drive and it was fine for awhile. Today she went to take it for a spin after having now driven it for a week...and it’s dead again.

I could jump it with my car again to get it going...BUT....I JUST remembered we have an ancient battery charger on a shelf in the basement storage room that I know nothing about (I think it was left in this house when we moved in?. It’s an old ‘Allanson’ unit...no idea of the vintage (guessing ‘70s?), or if it even works:

...here is where we excuse my lack of intelligence. As I have never used an automotive battery charger before, I have only a vague idea what I am doing. Obviously, I know the basics: put the switch on it to 12v, black to black., red to red, plug into wall and leave it for several hours...but...will this shut itself off when the battery is charged? It says it has ‘overload protection’, so I am assuming so?

I am assuming I should take the battery out of the car if I do this...right? ...though I seem to remember seeing pics of people online using these with the battery still in the car...?

Also...I thought I’d read somewhere (and forgive my ignorance) that modern cars can go a bit wonky due to all their electronic wizardry without a battery installed for a long-ish length of time (ECU settings being reset, factory and aftermarket radios needing codes re-entered, etc). The one in her car has a BIT of a charge, enough to keep the clock correct and the odo correct, etc, etc...just not enough to turn over the engine. Is ‘wonkiness’ going to be an issue if I have to leave it charging, say, overnight or something? Then again, we’re talking mom’s 2010 Accent sedan, so it’s not exactly the most complex of modern cars.

Thoughts and advice are appreciated and thanks for not making fun of me too much! :P

RamblinRover Luxury-Yacht > RallyDarkstrike - Fan of 2-cyl FIATs, Eastern Bloc & Kei cars 05/22/2020 at 15:02

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Probably no wonkiness, that charger ought to be able to get you charged back up just fine, assuming no major capacity loss on the battery. It won’t shut itself off as such, but probably won’t make the battery explode either.

If you have any doubts, just pick up a Battery Tender Jr. They’re like $30.

Highlander-Datsuns are Forever > RallyDarkstrike - Fan of 2-cyl FIATs, Eastern Bloc & Kei cars 05/22/2020 at 15:05

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That should work fine but you will have to keep and eye on it. Maybe start with 6 hours or so. If you can get a maintenance charger to just attache to the battery and leave there when the car isn’t being driven that would be much easier. 

Thisismydisplayname > RallyDarkstrike - Fan of 2-cyl FIATs, Eastern Bloc & Kei cars 05/22/2020 at 15:05

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6amps isn’t too bad to charge while in the car.  I typically only charge at 1-3amps if I leave a battery in the car.  But shouldn’t hurt anything.  How old is the battery?  Once they get drained down too low sometimes they can damage a cell and then they won’t quite work correctly anymore.  You are doing better to charge with a charger vs using the alternator to charge it from a low voltage state, as you can torch the alternator that way.  So hook it up and don’t let the smoke out, should be good to go.  Just set it on the lowest amp setting you can, at 12 volts of course.  

Akio Ohtori - RIP Oppo > RallyDarkstrike - Fan of 2-cyl FIATs, Eastern Bloc & Kei cars 05/22/2020 at 15:06

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I second Battery Tender Jr.  I own 5 or 6 because of who I am as a person.

VincentMalamute-Kim > RallyDarkstrike - Fan of 2-cyl FIATs, Eastern Bloc & Kei cars 05/22/2020 at 15:08

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You don’t have to take the battery out.

That charger won’t shut itself off when it’s done charging - you have to do that. I’d leave it on all day keeping an eye on the meter. The amps will drop as the battery nears full charge.

Then get a Battery Tender to keep it topped up. You can leave those on the battery all the time.

Keep that ancient charger around - new ones won’t even try to charge if the battery is too depleted but that ancient one will.

415s30 W123TSXWaggoIIIIIIo ( •_•))°) > RallyDarkstrike - Fan of 2-cyl FIATs, Eastern Bloc & Kei cars 05/22/2020 at 15:12

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Disconnect her battery if she isn’t using the car, the car could be a vampire. You could test the car for a drain. I don’t have a plug near my cars, if you do just use a tender like people said. 

MiniGTI - now with XJ6 > RallyDarkstrike - Fan of 2-cyl FIATs, Eastern Bloc & Kei cars 05/22/2020 at 15:16

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Yes my Volvo went without being driven for a week and was flat, I’ve read that’s actually considered normal and not unusual.

RPM esq. > RallyDarkstrike - Fan of 2-cyl FIATs, Eastern Bloc & Kei cars 05/22/2020 at 15:21

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I have a similar ancient charger. You don’t have to take the battery out of the car but it won’t shut itself off, so just go check on it every couple of hours until the amp meter starts reading low (i.e. the battery isn’t taking any more charge).

HammerheadFistpunch > RallyDarkstrike - Fan of 2-cyl FIATs, Eastern Bloc & Kei cars 05/22/2020 at 15:29

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This is basically a current limiting charger, it will apply constant current until a voltage is reached and then vary the amps until you reach saturation . Great for bulk charging but it wont top off the battery fully or condition it the way a multi-step charger would. Also you don’t have to take the battery out but with these kinds of chargers the amount of hydrogen sulfide produced is a little higher so avoid sparks and put the charger far away.

You basically watch the gauge until the current levels off then its charged.

gokstate > RallyDarkstrike - Fan of 2-cyl FIATs, Eastern Bloc & Kei cars 05/22/2020 at 15:37

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connect red first, then black

RallyDarkstrike - Fan of 2-cyl FIATs, Eastern Bloc & Kei cars > RamblinRover Luxury-Yacht 05/22/2020 at 15:45

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OK, cool....I should check one of those out. Then again, I warned her if her battery can’t hold a charg e for a week, it may be time to replace it...it’s the original battery for the car at this point.

RallyDarkstrike - Fan of 2-cyl FIATs, Eastern Bloc & Kei cars > Thisismydisplayname 05/22/2020 at 15:46

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Battery is 10 years, it’s the original one to the car. I warned her that it may be damaged from being on a low charge already...I don’t think this charger has any other amp setting than 6 amps. :/

RallyDarkstrike - Fan of 2-cyl FIATs, Eastern Bloc & Kei cars > 415s30 W123TSXWaggoIIIIIIo ( •_•))°) 05/22/2020 at 15:47

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I don’t think the car has any parasitic drain....it never has and the battery has only started acting up since the COVID lockdown began as she hasn’t been driving the car. There aren’t any plugs near her car, sadly....I’d need a pretty long extension cable to run one to it.

RallyDarkstrike - Fan of 2-cyl FIATs, Eastern Bloc & Kei cars > HammerheadFistpunch 05/22/2020 at 15:49

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OK, cool, thanks! How long would I leave it plugged in for...a day?

RallyDarkstrike - Fan of 2-cyl FIATs, Eastern Bloc & Kei cars > RPM esq. 05/22/2020 at 15:49

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OK, cool, thanks! How long would I leave it plugged in for do you think? Obviously that depends on how dead it is, but what would a ballpark guess be, just curio us?

HammerheadFistpunch > RallyDarkstrike - Fan of 2-cyl FIATs, Eastern Bloc & Kei cars 05/22/2020 at 15:55

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you can do some basic math to give you an idea. Find out how big the battery is (usually listed as reserve capacity in minutes) multiple RC x 60 to get reserve capacity seconds. Then multiply by 25 (the rate at which its used) ten divide by 3600 (coulombs per amp hr) that will give you the amp capacity. Then assume it’s got about 20% of that figure if its fully flat but chargeable. That gives you how many amps need to go in. Then you know the amps and the rate (6 amps/hr) and that will give you a good idea of when you should be checking on the charger.

i.e. a 100 minute RC battery has ~42 AH

100 x 60 = 6000 x 25 = 150,000 coulombs / 3600 = 41.66 ahr

42 x .8 = ~33 Ahr to be charged

33/6 = 5.5 hours.

Granted these are VERY loose estimates because the current will drop over time making the charge longer , but it at least gives you some idea.  Figure 6-9 hours depending on how dead it is.

HammerheadFistpunch > RallyDarkstrike - Fan of 2-cyl FIATs, Eastern Bloc & Kei cars 05/22/2020 at 16:01

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That battery is toast. If its that old and has been flat twice you won’t get more than 50% capacity from it ever again (at best) . I would replace.

barnie > RallyDarkstrike - Fan of 2-cyl FIATs, Eastern Bloc & Kei cars 05/22/2020 at 16:34

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If the clock is still accurate and the radio channels are still set then there IS parasitic drain. Small but it’s there. Not to mention all the other stuff that we can’t see (ECU, etc.)

RallyDarkstrike - Fan of 2-cyl FIATs, Eastern Bloc & Kei cars > Highlander-Datsuns are Forever 05/22/2020 at 17:40

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Yeah , might have to pick one of those up...

RallyDarkstrike - Fan of 2-cyl FIATs, Eastern Bloc & Kei cars > Akio Ohtori - RIP Oppo 05/22/2020 at 17:40

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*thinks about all the cars Akio owns* A great person?

RallyDarkstrike - Fan of 2-cyl FIATs, Eastern Bloc & Kei cars > VincentMalamute-Kim 05/22/2020 at 17:40

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Awesome, thanks for the info! I’m not planning on getting rid of it...it’s just so ‘70s! :P

RallyDarkstrike - Fan of 2-cyl FIATs, Eastern Bloc & Kei cars > barnie 05/22/2020 at 17:42

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Well, yeah, but I meant nothing untoward causing drain other than the usual. The clock and radio stations are still set atm, despite it being low, so it’s not COMPLETELY dead.

RallyDarkstrike - Fan of 2-cyl FIATs, Eastern Bloc & Kei cars > HammerheadFistpunch 05/22/2020 at 17:42

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Cool, thanks! Glad you guys know more than I do :P

RallyDarkstrike - Fan of 2-cyl FIATs, Eastern Bloc & Kei cars > HammerheadFistpunch 05/22/2020 at 17:43

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Yeah, I’ve told her we’ll prob need to replace it. Current plan is to swap it into my car and put my good battery in hers as mine is a stick, so I could likely bump-start mine if it’s lower without needing the starter if need be and I drive more often, so would likely keep it charged up more.

Victorinoo > RallyDarkstrike - Fan of 2-cyl FIATs, Eastern Bloc & Kei cars 05/22/2020 at 18:03

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Batteries typically last around 4-5 years. I would buy a new one and keep a good one in your car as well. You’ll kill an alternator by forcing it to try and charge bad batteries all the time. I say buy a good battery now and save the headache later. It should have probably have  been changed years ago.

RPM esq. > RallyDarkstrike - Fan of 2-cyl FIATs, Eastern Bloc & Kei cars 05/22/2020 at 18:17

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Something like 6-12 hours in my experience, depending how dead it is. You could also just charge it to the point it will crank and then go drive around for awhile. But I saw that you commented elsewhere that the battery is older—it may not take a charge at all and be permanently dead at this point. I just went through that with a 6-year-old battery that had been jumped a couple times and just wouldn’t take a charge .

You could jump the car to get it to the store and replace the battery in the parking lot if you felt so inclined, so you wouldn’t have to lug a battery around too much.

RallyDarkstrike - Fan of 2-cyl FIATs, Eastern Bloc & Kei cars > Victorinoo 05/22/2020 at 19:16

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Yeah, will prob pick one up in the next few weeks - for now we did the easiest solution, which I was too dumb to think of. I stuck my good battery in her car and put her battery in my car because manual ftw = bump starts on our hill driveway if it DOES go dead on me. I also tend to drive more often than she does, so hopefully I can keep it topped up more until I can go to get a replacement.

RallyDarkstrike - Fan of 2-cyl FIATs, Eastern Bloc & Kei cars > RPM esq. 05/22/2020 at 19:19

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It does take a charge...I think part of it is just that she hasn’t been driving at all with stay-at-home due to COVID and she was only giving it a 15 minute run every so often when she remembered to do it meaning it never really had the chance to charge up that much.

I never thought of it earlier, but I didn’t need to use the charger - I just swapped my good battery into her car and her old battery into my car because my car = manual trans, which = bumps starts on our slight hill driveway. I have also been driving more than she does so it should help keep the battery topped up and hopefully let it charge back up and if it DOES go dead before I manage to get a replacement....I just bumpstart my car on our hill and off I go. :)

We actually just did that she came with me, I bumpstarted my car with her old battery in one try and then we went for a 30 minute drive to charge it up.

Highlander-Datsuns are Forever > RallyDarkstrike - Fan of 2-cyl FIATs, Eastern Bloc & Kei cars 05/22/2020 at 20:07

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I got one at Napa for like $40. It’s so nice tho, just attach it and forget about it.

oldmxer > RallyDarkstrike - Fan of 2-cyl FIATs, Eastern Bloc & Kei cars 05/24/2020 at 01:45

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trickle charger, most have a kit for a dedicated plug where it is operable by grannies to plug in at the end of each trip and unplug for next trip, can be set up to even work through cig lighter plug, if she is still good to be driving this should be easy fix, youtube has various vids on this

Thisismydisplayname > RallyDarkstrike - Fan of 2-cyl FIATs, Eastern Bloc & Kei cars 05/24/2020 at 14:27

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Not worth it to try and keep it running, if you want to save a few bucks, at least grab one from a salvage yard that’s been checked out. $20-$30 vs $130. But really, you’ve got more than your money’s worth out of that battery. Not like the one in our 2017 Pacifica that I just had to replace last month. But I think one of the times it went in for service, the car was left on and the battery discharged too low and was damaged. If they aren’t an AGM style battery, they just don’t like to be discharged too low. Very easy to kill a cell.

Advance auto runs decent coupons on their online interface and every so often you can get a 25% off discount code to use.  That’s when I normally replace my batteries if it works out.   It normally they offer 20% off, and you can get it shipped or pickup in store same day.